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Post by Mosin on Apr 26, 2009 1:01:51 GMT -5
Just wanted to know what everyones take is on wearing real military patches and unit designated gear. I know I made a poll a while back on the normal MiA and the consensus was about 50/50. But seeing as MilSim MiA is different, I want to know what this crowd takes on it.
My personal thoughts are, by all means, if you were prior service and it was your unit, or your branch, then wear it with pride. But if you haven't actually done what they have, then you should not, because it demeans the very purpose of the symbol that someone has put so much blood and sweat and tears and frustration into getting.
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Post by Maj. Scott on Apr 26, 2009 1:32:57 GMT -5
As a veteran, I feel somewhat divided on this issue.
If it is, say, a divisional patch (i.e. 82nd AB Div.) then I see few problems with it.
However, individual unit patches are a dicey issue. Special Forces unit patches should not be worn by those who have never served in those units. This is simply because they have not earned the qualifications requisite to have been in such units. The Same certainly applies to Ranger Bat. Scrolls (a.k.a. "Merrills") as one must have been a Ranger in order to have served in one of the battalions (with the notable exception of the SBT, or "Special Troops Battalion).
As for wearing Ranger Tabs, SF Tabs, Airborne Tabs, Sniper Tabs, etc. it is my sincere opinion that one should not wear one unless that person has actually earned the right. Those of us who have earned the right are definitely offended when we see this on the uniforms of individuals who have not earned it. It belittles our hard work and effort. I think (I'll have my legal department look into it to be sure) there is even federal legislation that makes it illegal to wear the SF and Ranger tabs if you were not actually qualified. I may be wrong on that, though. It's just something I remember hearing about.
All in all, as a general rule of thumb, if you didn't serve, I would advise against wearing a unit patch unless significantly altered from it's original form.
Respectfully,
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Post by gunslinger on Apr 26, 2009 2:53:24 GMT -5
Agreed, I think allot of kids or even "growd" ups wear it because they think its "cool". Or in some retarded way a honoring the branch type thing.
I cant speak for those types, I have worn unit patches for Russian officers for a game we played way back when I was with A.C.O. ( Hopefully that dosn't provoke the same animosity's as wearing U.S. patches) and it was so funny when I was at the gas station some kid asks me what branch I was in... I looked at him like DUH!!!, I had a GIANT red star and spetznaz patches on my tiger stripe BDU set. And he asked me if that was the new como pattern. WOW, I laughed and said no not since Vietnam. He walked away I went in paid for my gas and laughed all the way home.
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Post by Six on Apr 26, 2009 6:13:26 GMT -5
My answer is simple. If you didn't earn it, but you want to wear it. Go see a recruiter. We worked hard and went through some crap to get whats on our uniform. Not wearing it shows more respect than wearing it.
If you are going to wear something, do your homework. There are guys (like myself) who like to chat with guys who have tabs and unit patches. Former Servicemen can spot a fake from 300 meters. You don't wanna be THAT guy.
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Post by Buck on Apr 26, 2009 9:03:24 GMT -5
My answer is simple. If you didn't earn it, but you want to wear it. Go see a recruiter. I feel the same dang way. However, I personally do not mind it so much if it is a Marine Corps uniform from say, WWII. If it is a modern day uniform with my E.G.A., I hope the guy/gal has considered that those of us who have actually earned the right to wear it might be a slight bit offended. Now, I do however give a little slack to those who's parents may have given them thier uniforms to wear. I gave my son one of my old uniforms to wear. I can see he wears it with pride. However, if I caught him telling someone that he himself earned that, he and I would have some strong words.
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Post by kurt19d on Apr 26, 2009 10:25:24 GMT -5
[/quote]o however give a little slack to those who's parents may have given them thier uniforms to wear. I gave my son one of my old uniforms to wear. I can see he wears it with pride. However, if I caught him telling someone that he himself earned that, he and I would have some strong words. [/quote]
I am glad you mentioned that, I was going to ask. I gave my son an old BDU shirt of mine that he wears at games. No unit patch, just name and branch. I don't want anyone giving him a hard time about that.
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Post by my35mmpistol on Apr 26, 2009 13:41:31 GMT -5
Lol, i laugh cause i'll get flamed for this.
"A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon." -Napoleon Bonaparte
It's just a patch in my opinion, outside of the military service, it's nothing more than cotton. Civi's don't know what they mean. Are you offended when the half-retarded dope feind wears his BDU jacket with old patches on it that he got at salvation army? I think this is just a moot point that people like to bring up to stir up arguement and false patriotism. But thats just me.
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Post by Maj. Scott on Apr 26, 2009 18:22:48 GMT -5
35mm, I am struggling to understand the "false patriotism" comment. At what point did our patriotism come into the discussion?
Further, as this is a MilSim community, no one here is just another "civi". MilSim participants, by definition, strive to be as close to military in their attire as the can. This would include uniform patches. Therefore, in THIS community, a patch is not as you describe it: "nothing more than cotton". Certainly, to those of us who have served and earned the privilege (it's not the right of just anyone) of wearing our units' patches, we often get offended by callous remarks like that.
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Post by Captain Wrinklestick on Apr 26, 2009 20:55:49 GMT -5
My opinion, I will not wear something that I have not earned. Be it sgt. stripes, ranger tabs or division patches I didn't earn it in the real military so I won't cheapen it for someone who did. An impression is something different becasue that is something of an homage but I don't feel comfortable even wearing an impression.
I honor those who have earned that respect by not stealing it from them.
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Post by my35mmpistol on Apr 27, 2009 13:22:31 GMT -5
" Certainly, to those of us who have served and earned the privilege (it's not the right of just anyone) of wearing our units' patches, we often get offended by callous remarks like that."
don't be offended by my remarks, If you were a former militant, you have earned the right to wear those ribbons, But, As a civilian, even in milsim airsoft, they really don't mean anything. I couldn't tell you the difference between a generals markings and a corprals markings except to know the number of stripes and colors seems to be a good thing, and the number of little falic triangles on your sleeve denote greatness... But ya, outside the military, and in airsoft, your military patches shouldn't matter. You received those for real combat. This is fake combat.
Don't take my words offensively, it's just another opinion.
And the false patriotism comment is in regards to everyone on MIA being up in arms over their stance on the topic, yet really, if they followed the parameters of the patriotism they preach, most of them would be overseas right now. Dont' take me as a soldier hater, i have a level of respect for anyone willing to take up arms for their country, my father, his father, my brothers in law etc etc, all military, but it's not something i'd ever consider doing, so i don't declare my patriotism so boldly as to condemn someone else's actions regarding a military recreation.
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Post by El Phantasamo on Apr 27, 2009 19:49:58 GMT -5
Personally, Id rather wear team pathces.
If it was really strict mil-sim, and service tapes and rank insignia are required, ok Fine.
Unit patches, NO NO NO NO NO! I will NEVER host an event that requires that.
Ill wear my team patches with pride. I may add an "Airborne Tab" after I get my skydiving license.
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Post by Captain Wrinklestick on Apr 27, 2009 21:08:10 GMT -5
I would disagree with that airborne tab because you have jumped out of a perfectly good airplane in civilian life. I think it's just plain nuts to jump out out of an airplane any higher than the landing gear but that's just my opinion too. I see that airborne tab as a badge of honor that someone busted their ass for and sacrificed for our country in the process and that honor is theirs alone. If I were to put on the seal emblem and equate my vacation scuba diving in Cancun to what they have done cheapens their sacrifice and hard work.
I like how silentwarrior put it, you want an airborne tab go see a recruiter.
That all being said, if you choose to wear it I'm not going to try and stop you. Ultimately it's your gear and you can have it the way you want it. The joys of freedom!!!
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Gurthy
Unofficial Member
Posts: 4
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Post by Gurthy on Apr 27, 2009 22:35:42 GMT -5
Ill wear my team patches with pride. I may add an "Airborne Tab" after I get my skydiving license. Just a clarification, the "Airborne" tab is actually part of a unit patch while the Parachutist Badge (jump wings) is an earned badge. Ranger and SF tabs are earned tabs, but not Airborne (or Mountain, nowadays, for that matter). Legs can wear the unit patch, including Airborne tab, if the are assigned to that unit, which is often seen worn by those awaiting jump school. Back to the topic, I oppose wearing any patches or badges, especially those that were not earned. Personally, I will not even wear what I had earned because it cheapens it.
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Post by El Phantasamo on Apr 27, 2009 22:43:10 GMT -5
I would disagree with that airborne tab because you have jumped out of a perfectly good airplane in civilian life.... I see that airborne tab as a badge of honor that someone busted their ass for and sacrificed for our country in the process and that honor is theirs alone.... That all being said, if you choose to wear it I'm not going to try and stop you. Ultimately it's your gear and you can have it the way you want it. The joys of freedom!!! Just a clarification, the "Airborne" tab is actually part of a unit patch while the Parachutist Badge (jump wings) is an earned badge. Ranger and SF tabs are earned tabs, but not Airborne (or Mountain, nowadays, for that matter). Legs can wear the unit patch, including Airborne tab, if the are assigned to that unit, which is often seen worn by those awaiting jump school. Back to the topic, I oppose wearing any patches or badges, especially those that were not earned. Personally, I will not even wear what I had earned because it cheapens it. Maybe ill have the artwork on the team patches edited for those of us who ave done military or civilian jumps. The "Airborne Asshats" is an ongoing gag on our team forum.
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Post by Mosin on Apr 27, 2009 23:27:47 GMT -5
Well.. I guess it just bugs me to see these types of things. Honestly I thought it was a big deal before I joined up, and even now, after just going through the 8 months that I've already been in, still putting up with everything I do and just trying to do some good. I think that it really demeans what we've worked so hard to accomplish.
Around here, if you see someone walking around Coronado with a Trident, they're pretty much god, because they have earned that right over all else. To see it on some kids in Spain because they knew a guy once and they might have done ROTC in school deosn't prove anything to me.
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